Who hasn’t complained about money from time to time? I’ve had my share of gripes over the years for sure! Some people follow up their gripes by doing something about it. They save and work hard so they can have a better life later on. They become the well to do.
Others are the not so well to do’s. They sacrifice their futures to live like kings and queens today, always with the latest “stuff” but at the same time complaining about money.
I’ve observed, over the years, that the not so well to do’s have some traits in common. The following list are my observations. These items aren’t bad per se, but when you see a good number of these traits in a person there’s a good chance they too are one of the not so well to do (read: poor)!
25 Traits Of The Not So Well To Do:
1) Flat screen TV – I’d love to have one but I know we can use the money elsewhere right now. But I’ve seen a lot of paycheck to paycheck households with a flat-screen TV. They are the wave of the future but these were bought to have a cool tv
2) Premium cable channels – Who doesn’t love the shows on HBO or Showtime? But the the ones who are most complaining about money tend to not only have one premium cable channel, they tend to have them all! When you mention that it’s expensive they insist that it’s cheaper because of a package. They might also have some sort of DVR t record all of the channels too. Sorry, I can’t see spending over $100 a month to sit in front of the TV that much (thought there was a time that I did but I was also in credit card debt once too).
3) Eating out often – The not so well to do can’t get ahead because so much of their paychecks go to eating out often. I’m not against a good meal but these people rely on other to cook for them rather than prepare food for themselves.
4) Leasing a car – A car lease can be useful but the not so well to do’s are perpetually leasing, enticed by the lower monthly payment. Over time though a bought car would have saved them a whole lot!
5) Buying a new car every few years – Maybe worse than the car leasers are those who insist on buying a car every few years. Oh, the horror of not having an up to date vehicle that you take care of for the long haul. You must have something new to show off.
6) TV in every room (with cable) – The not so well to do’s are so consumed with their TV shows that they have one in every room lest they miss something on TV! Every bedroom and kid has one! There might even be a small one in the kitchen. And to add to the expense they probably all have full premium cable channels. I love TV but come on!
7) Latest cell phones – The not so well to do’s always have the latest cell phones. It’s a miracle if their cell phones last for the 2-year contract. These are people where you run into them every few months and somehow they have a new phone. They’ll insist that it didn’t cost them anything but we know better.
8 ) Eat poorly – This goes hand in hand with eating out. The NSWTD’s tend to eat like crap. Soda is a staple as are fried foods and fast food in general.
9) Overweight/No Exercise – When you eat out all the time and don’t eat well what’s going to happen? Yeah, you’re gonna put on a couple of pounds. Or more! This people scoff at exercise and moan that they don’t have time and it’s too expensive. Of course it is – you’re spending too much time and money on your TV’s and shows!
10) Lots of new clothes – Oh, the not so well to do’s have to have the latest styles or the biggest name brands. And in excess too! A few pairs of shoes or sneakers? Yeah, that would be optimistic. More like enough shoes so that none of them ever have a chance of wearing out.
11) Tons of gifts for the holidays when you can’t afford it – Have you heard this story? Person complains that they are up to their necks in credit card debt because they had to buy everyone gifts for the holidays. Not just immediate family but all sorts of extended family too. Uncle Joe’s wife’s sister Mary’s kid needed to get that new X-Box game because you promised it to him. Wonder why he likes it when you come over for the holidays?
12) New computer every couple of years - Man, the not so well to do’s go through computers like my two year old goes through diapers! There’s always some reason they needed a new one. And no, these people don’t need their computer for work in any way.
13) Don’t take care of their stuff - These folks not only have lots of stuff but they don’t take care of it either. Rather than take care of their stuff they let it fall into disarray. Even if there’s something small that can be fixed they’d rather just go buy another then go through the trouble of fixing it. Yeah, here’s one reason they go through so many cars, cell phones, and computers!
14) Tons of gadgets - Always with the newest gadgets the not so well to do’s have (that was a Yoda sentence, huh?). Besides cell phones and such they also have whatever is the newest thing, paying full price for being the first to have it.
15) Doesn’t own a home – Nothing wrong with renting but I find that the not so well to do’s more often than not rent. And they move pretty often too. I guess their apartments aren’t ever big enough for all of their stuff!
16) No online high yield savings accounts – No ING for these people. For whatever reason they don’t trust online banking, or so they claim. Yet they seem to be able to use their computers to shop online without trust issues, hmm.
17) Doesn’t budget – No budget what-so-ever! “Budgets? We don’t need no stinking budgets!” Spend and we’ll figure it out later.
18) Couldn’t tell you their monthly expenses – The NSWTD’s can’t keep track of their expenses. There’s so many to keep track of too! Think a budget might help? They also have a tendency to miss payments on bills making the cost of their expenses even greater.
19) Doesn’t share finances with their spouse – There’s a tendency that one spouse takes care of all the finances while the other one has no clue. Scary.
20) Hates job but won’t do anything about it – Do these people bitch about their jobs! But ask them why they won’t leave or look for another one and they’ll give you a litany of excuses.
21) Little or no college education – I don’t want to rag on people who don’t like school. It’s not for everyone and not everyone needs it. But it seems a lot of the not so well to do’s have little or no college education. Just saying.
22) No financial priorities – These are the people that tell you they could never save a down payment for a house but then you see all of the gadgets and new items they have. Yeah, they could save up they just don’t make it a priority.
23) Quick to pick up tab and tip – It’s great going out with these people because they are quick to pick up the tab and/or leave a ridiculous tip. It’s like they are trying to prove they have a lot so they become over generous. Hey, I’ll pay my share and you don’t have to prove anything to me!
24) They don’t realize their situation – For all of the complaining about money they do, the not so well to do’s don’t realize why they are cash-strapped. When you try to point out how they spend or how expensive some of their habits are they say it’s nonsense.
25) No personal responsibility – Someone or something is always out to get them and causes them to be broke. The IRS hates them. Their bosses won’t promote them. Their family takes their money. There’s always some outside influence that causes them to not have money. It rare that they blame themselves for their situation.
The traits I listed aren’t bad in of themselves. Hey, if I could always have a new car and the latest cell phone and eat out all the time at the nicest restaurants then that would be great. But I can’t, and these people can’t either. The not so well to do’s over-extend themselves and hold themselves back. They try to live up to some imaginary ideal that is impossible for them to keep up with. Some ofi t is keeping up with the Jones’. Some of it is not wanting to know their limitations. Whatever it is it keeps them back and they will always be struggling unless they change their ways. They are the not so well to do and will remain that way unless they change.
If you are reading this and these traits resemble you then take a good hard look at your spending habits and ask yourself if there’s any way you could make a positive change!
What traits have you noticed about the not so well to do’s?
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Great list! I would say the NSWTDs are 1 to 2 paychecks away from ruin and have no emergency. Sounds like a few people I know sadly enough, but then again, they say ignorance is bliss.
Matt SF’s last blog post..Weekend Reads: Stock Market Stuck in a Trading Range Edition
@ Matt – Unfortunately I think you are right. I think many of the NSWTD’s would rather not think about their financial situation and pretend it will resolve itself or some magic will happen when the time comes.
Oops… I meant to say… no emergency fund.
Matt SF’s last blog post..Weekend Reads: Stock Market Stuck in a Trading Range Edition
I know some people like this. Complain they never have money and they are literally one misstep away from disaster but the second they get their hands on any remotely substantial amount of money they are out buying some new gadget, never helping themselves by saving or just living contentedly. It’s hard to watch and try to be sympathetic when it seems they don’t want to do anything to help themselves. The moment something goes wrong, at least they have a house full of gadgety crap to sell off until next time.
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@ Emily – Thing is they probably don’t have the gadgetry to really sell off. Either it’s not taken care of or not worth what they paid for it because they had to be the first to get it or it’s upgraded already. I’ve also seen these types all too often (even was one once). They get something like a tax refund and rather than start a savings account or pay off bills they look to make some grand expenditure. It’s tough to feel bad for them after a while.
…and sometimes they spend their tax refund or whatever before they’ve even received it… All you can do is shake your head..
btw, I guess it’s been a while since I clicked over from my reader. Love the new look!!
Emily@remodelingthislife’s last blog post..Pear Budget Giveaway Winners!
Thanks! It’s still a work in progress but it’s getting there.
I certainly know people like this. What frustrates me the most is when I see people out spending money and then they comment about how they have no idea how much money they have! How can you know whether or not you can afford something if you have no idea how much money you have?
On another note, I think we should be careful not to judge someone because we see them doing some of these behaviors. There is definitely nothing wrong with having a flat screen tv or eating out. We all just need to choose which luxuries are important to us and which ones we can live without.
Olivia’s last blog post..Saving Just a Little Can Go a Long Way
@ Olivia – Yes, people spend without care. Not to blame credit cards but I think having revolving credit gives them a sense of security that they can always pay it back later.
And I’m not judging anyone who fits most of these traits but can afford it. I agree that we have to make a priority of what’s important to us. If someone wants a flat-screen tv then by all means get one. But I don’t want to hear that you can’t afford the rent or the car payment or you’re short on cash. That’s where I have an issue.
I think you make an interesting observation. My husband once had a job in which he had to visit others in their homes. My brother currently delivers furniture for a store. Both of them were in awe over the flat screen TVs and nice cars that frequently came with low-rent apartments. There weren’t any signs of well-to-do, except the TVs and the cars. And my brother said that when he delivers furniture to such places it is almost always financed at high rates. My husband once complimented someone on their car, and the guy began complaining about the high cost of the payments and interest. I guess it’s a matter of priority. And being more concerned with LOOKING well-to-do, rather than actually being well-to-do.
Miranda’s last blog post..Would We Be Happier If We Paid More Taxes?
Keeping up with the Jones’! Yet I know some people who are wealthy and they don’t have flashy cars or tv’s. Interesting isn’t it?
I believe you mean keeping up with the Joneses… Keeping up with the Jones’ just doesn’t make any sense.
I love this post! You described a few members of my family to a T. crazy.
Ashley @ Wide Open Wallet’s last blog post..Guest Post over at Ultimate Money Blog
The NSWTDs have their tax refund spent before they even see it.
The NSWTDs use payday loans.
The NSWTDs don’t have an emergency fund.
The NSWTDs can’t skip the daily Starbucks.
The NSWTDs are at the mercy of friends when their car breaks down.
The NSWTDs move further away from work and public transportation.
The NSWTD wonders why her frugal wants to live so “poor” when her friend’s husband makes a good income.
O.k., sad to say, I might be describing a friend. My hope for her and all the NSWTDs is that they figure out 1. how bad off they really are but 2. how well off they could be and with what changes, and then 3. turn things around before disaster really strikes.
Goodness knows, my husband and I have made a lot of mistakes — and are paying for them. And we will be paying them off for a while, and then trying to make up for lost time with savings and retirement. But, in the meantime, we’re living frugally, making a good dent in our debt each month, and not living all that bad. Actually, I think we’re living a lot better than we did before. So, there is hope for everyone!
Meg from FruWiki’s last blog post..Plastic shopping bags
I agree with you on all fronts! It’s ok to make mistakes, we all make them, it’s realizing the mistakes that are important.
I know some people like this. Scary!
Just the other day, I was thinking about all the new crap I could buy now that we’re out of debt. But, I’d buy it and then we’d be broke.
We’d be better off if we save our money for its intended purpose (getting a house) rather than enjoying a bunch of gadgets but remaining mostly broke.
It’s all about priorities
Kacie’s last blog post..Why I wanna spend: Daunted by my next goal
Funny, we do the same thing. We think “why not just take our money and go on a huge vacation somewhere?” Then we pop back into reality and focus on our priorities.
A more abstract characteristic might be the lack of a vision or overall purpose to life. I think large wealth ultimately always comes from a larger purpose. The larger your purpose/vision, the larger your wealth. So, if you have no vision there’s also less need to plan, and then you end up living day by day.
MoneyEnergy’s last blog post..The Real Costs of Graduate School
Both an interesting and great point! When you’re floundering around you’re not thinking of retirement and such.
Echoing MoneyEnergy’s point, it is quite well known sociologically that short term thinking and lower socio-economic standing (and conversely, long term thinking and upper socio-economic standing) are highly correlated.
Also, this has little to do with income levels. Quite a few high-income families are quite poor as they cannot afford their lifestyles, nor do they have savings to fall back on. On the other hand, there are many low income families that are on a financially sound footing. It is all about priorities.
Arohan’s last blog post..Strategies for Teaching Kids about Money and Savings
So true – You can be a high power attorney and still be living paycheck to paycheck because of your debt.
Man, I used to embody about 10 of those traits…no longer though my friend!
This post is sweet…simple ways for people to measure how effective their current (if any) debt reduction plan really is.
One of my goals in life is to help people like this! Poor saps…
Matt Jabs’s last blog post..The Importance of Financial Mentoring
Same here. I think a lot of people at some point resembled this list. The key is realizing your situation and doing something to get out of it.
It reminded me how specifically of the relationship that exists between an individuals debt and just how much they are willing to sacrifice to get rid of it.
More sacrifice = quicker road to debt freedom. It’s so simple, but people are just so unwilling to sacrifice anymore.
That’s why I absolutely love Jacob of EarlyRetirementExtreme.com. That guy sacrificed enough for all of us!
Matt Jabs’s last blog post..Manually Report Utility Meter Readings To Avoid Being Overcharged
One thing I might add, is that after a while, you realize that not having all this stuff is NOT really all that much of a sacrifice. A roof over your head, food bought at the grocery store, a used carr you paid cash for, an affordable TV with limited cable……These things are a enough to make you happy. I would even suggest its possible to live happily without a TV entirely, but that is too radical for most.
I would suggest that Jacob at earlyretirementextreme.com is one of those people who is probably a lot happier than average, yet he lives with much less stuff than most.
Wow – what good timing to stumble on this post. I tend to exhibit way too many of these traits and am working on breaking free of that cycle. I find I can justify spending on almost anything if I really want to (like the flat screen tv I was looking at earlier today).
Thanks for reminding me to watch my actions now so I can live better later!
Matt @ My Financial Recovery’s last blog post..Do You Use Roku?
I know what you mean! I’m the master of justifying an expense. Fortunately I have my wife to reign me back in.
one that you left out that is probably the biggest reason is that they have a large amount of credit card debt and they pay the minimum! I saw so many of my friends do that and they get into a hole that they can never climb out of.
Only paying the minimum is killer!
In other words, the ‘Not so well to do’ can’t control what they spend their money on.
They buy useless things that make them ‘look rich’
TStrump’s last blog post..Discount Broker Choice and Stock Pick
Yeah, that sums up a lot of it.
We’re a nation driven by being in debt….not that I agree with it. Even Obama is telling people to go spend spend spend: When he should be saying, save save save.
I would emphasise that “Doesn’t budget” is one of the main sources of the rest of the trouble as hilighted in a recent study carried out here in Australia. Thanks for the post.
I think I have to disagree about the overweight thing. I haven’t found being overweight to be much of a factor. Or maybe I’m just touchy because I’ve been pretty careful about money my whole life. And also overweight for most of it.
I definitely agree that there are a few hallmarks in there. The premium cable channels and the nice electronics.
They also tend to go out all the time, while simultaneously complaining about their finances. For awhile, I went to this dive bar (friends hung out there and cheap, strong drinks when I did indulge). Many of the regulars went there quite literally every weekday. And I would watch them pouring from a pitcher of beer and repeating the same phrases about how they were going to have to scrape up enough to get rent this month again, or they’re broke until payday. They seemed utterly unable to connect the two facts.
It actually hurt to hear, given how tight things were for me at the time. I tended to go during happy hour or simply go to hang out with friends and not drink. I was barely holding things together, between health problems interfering with my earning ability and life costs mounting. Drove me crazy.
You figure they bought even a pitcher three times a week, that’s $20ish a week. That’s over $1000 a year. And most of these people went four or five times a week (minimum) and got more than one pitcher. Great stuff.
Oh and don’t forget one other trait of the NWTDs: They’re REAL happy and social around payday. That’s often because they live paycheck to paycheck, so each new check means a few nights out or a big buying spree before it all evaporates again.
Abigail’s last blog post..A house shouldn’t be a priority
By no means is this a knock on people that are overweight. Heck I can certainly lose a few myself
. It’s just that I’ve observed that being overweight was a trait the not so well to do’s had from my perspective. Like the other traits, taken alone it doesn’t mean you will be poor. But throw in a bunch of other traits….
And you’re right about payday! Money burns a big hole in their pockets and they are quick to share it with everyone.
Very interesting take on people who survive on paychecks.. Cant agree more on this.. however would add few more points to this
1. These people dont have any emergency fund and worse they dont think its required.
2. Dont bargain or shop around while buying high ticket item.
3. Think that time to plan for retirement has not yet come and this they can do later.
4. Live in today and hope that tommorrow too will be similar.
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Great additions!
I totally agree with you. Love this post!!!!! I have a friend who is dead broke….can barely keep up with the electricity and food but they have a giant flat screen (in a tiny place where you can’t see the tv properly if you sit on anything but the couch!!!) and he has the latest cell phone!!!!
They have other issues as well but those two caught my eye because I was talking to someone about this earlier.
I hate to knock flat screen TV’s (I want one too!) but it’s such a common trait! It’s more related to sitting around watching too much TV more than anything (and have I been guilty of that as well).
I admit, even I possess some of these traits at times. It’s a continuous learning process, and I’m a lot better than I used to be! But this post is giving me the kick in the rear I think i needed!
Writing it is a kick in the rear for me. I’ve resembled too many of these in the past. Putting this list out here helps keep me accountable. Glad to hear it motivates you!
ffb,
Hard for some people to believe, but my husband and I have never even bought a t.v.! I brought on from home I had since a kid when I moved into his place — where he had a very t.v. being used as a table for his laundry. We didn’t even get cable till we moved to our next place, by which time we had gotten rid of the very old t.v.
We got a good-sized (but not flatscreen) t.v. as a gift from his brother, and then another one (used) from his aunt. We gave up cable last December and, instead of even bothering to get an antenna for them, we just gave them away since all we care to watch these days is online.
I’m actually quite proud of not having a t.v. — let alone a huge plasma one. I can see why someone would want one, but there are so many benefits to letting go of t.v.s:
* We put more thought into what we watch
* We watch almost everything free (online or from library)
* We use much less electricity now (our laptops were already on when we watched t.v.)
* No annoying lights coming from the t.v. or any the add-on boxes
* No having to set another timer
* Much less cable clutter
* Much, much more space
* No more keeping up with the Jones’s with bigger t.v.s every year
Meg from FruWiki’s last blog post..Plastic shopping bags
Great arguments for no TV Meg! Here’s a big thing for me – When you aren’t watching TV you can be doing more productive things. My wife reminds me of this from time to time. She tells me to turn the TV off and play with the kids. She’s right too. I pay more attention to them when the TV isn’t in the background and our imaginations are better. (I’m a recovering TV-aholic).
I made a lifestyle change this year in which I try really hard not to mindlessly channel surf and get sucked into the latest stupid reality show on MTV/VH1. Instead, I have spent my time reading books. I read 30 books in 2008; so far in 2009 I have read 36 and the year isn’t even half over! It’s amazing what you can accomplish (whether it be engaging in a hobby, spending time with family, etc.) when the TV is TURNED OFF!
Hannah’s last blog post..Lavazza Espresso Machines: Lavazza Espresso Point Matinee Cleaning Instructions
Just to add to the cell phones and tech stuff, It seems that with the upgraded phones they also have all the extra features, unlimited minutes (even if they don’t talk much) unlimited texting and pictures (although maybe they dont’ go over more than a few hundred a month) unlimited internet (if these people have a computer why do they need internet on their phone?!)
My friends are amazed that I spend about 60 dollars on my phone a month whre they are spending over 100. I also like that they don’t know the true cost “oh my plan is only 100 a month” but then you add in fees and taxes and that sucker can get up there! no thank you!
MK’s last blog post..Update on What I’ve Been Up To!
Absolutely! I can’t imagine paying $100 a month for a cell phone. Over a year that’s more than my Macbook cost!
It’s a shame that some of those NSWTD traits look so familiar. I used to be just like that in many ways. I’m glad things have turned around for (and within) me!
That One Caveman’s last blog post..How to Commute to Work by Bike
I’ve resembled too many of them myself!
Wonderful observations…it reminded me of examining UAWs vs. PAWs in The Millionaire Next Door. Usually the people with all the “stuff” have no money saved away and it’s the people who don’t look rich who really are! My husband and I always say, “life isn’t a contest!” It doesn’t matter how much cool “stuff” you have if you cannot afford to live when you reach retirement age!
Hannah’s last blog post..Lavazza Espresso Machines: Lavazza Espresso Point Matinee Cleaning Instructions
You can’t judge a book by it’s cover! I love me my gadgets but not at the sacrifice of being financially comfortable now or later.
I have to say that I agree with just about everything on this list. I know it’s true because I’ve seen it 1st hand, like many of those who comment above.
What worries me most is the attitude of the NSWTDs. They are quick to blame “the system” and advocate taxing “the rich”, when they should be engaging in healthy introspection and trying to learn why they are NSWTDs in the first place.
It’s seems that personal responsibility is all too often too difficult to accept.
Exactly. The onus is on the individual not the store or the commercials or the credit cards companies or your neighbors.
I agree with your comments. What worries me even more is that a majority or a large minority of Americans are like this. I would say at least 1/3.
And like you said, it affects their politics. They are likely to vote for politicians who promise something for nothing, even though we all know that is a fantasy.
Wow- Your observations are dead on. I just got out of a two year relationship with a person who embodies almost every single one of these traits. Had I known what they meant, I would have headed for the hills when the signs started to appear. Seriously, if you are in a relationship and they refuse to tell you about their finances and get indignant and high and mighty…RUN!!
If they don’t care about their financial health, why would they care about yours? They have no qualms about bringing you down with them.
jjomomma’s last blog post..Alive…and wet
That’s a great take on it! I think there are a lot of reason why someone might not want to reveal their finances but if it’s a serious relationship you should be able to discuss it.
Popped across from Collective Inkwell. I don’t have everything my group of friends and acquaintances have. By all appearances I’m not as well off as they are. But I don’t have their debt so actually I’m better off. I lost everything due to the greed of others and my own trusting nature. Had to work really hard to put it right. Man, I sleep well at night knowing I don’t owe, owe, owe. Oh, by the way, I don’t have a college education and they do. My life is not extravagant. I’m happy. Great article and so true.
Paisley’s last blog post..My ‘Salad Days’
Great to hear you’re moving on the right track! As for education, a degree doesn’t stop anyone when spending too much.
Well, we do have a flat screen tv. The other one didn’t work anymore. And we rent, because house prices in our area have been stoopid for the past 5 years. Buying next year, hopefully. And we both quit college to take fairly good jobs. We didn’t have any direction, so college felt like a waste of time. Nothing wrong with any of those things in and of themselves, but yeah, taken with a lot of other things, they can be warning signs.
Spoodles’s last blog post..Teething Bling
Exactly. I’d love a flat screen TV and after we move we might just get one. Doesn’t mean anything bad. The point is I see many who have them before their finances are in order. It’s more about keeping up with appearances than anything else.
Well I happen to love and own my fair share of gadgetry. I can distinguish the stupidly priced useless stuff from the super useful investments. I have a flat screen (I won’t need to buy another television for years- why not?) and a new phone every year (I only sign up for one-year contracts- which all cell phone companies offer through their official stores but don’t advertise- for the sole purpose of getting a new phone every year), Say what you will but on my most recent trip to San Fransisco having Google maps on my phone was my savior! I take nice vacations because I work hard and deserve it, but I plan it out as best as I can so I can take a luxury vacation for a modest price.
My fiance and I are in the process of looking for a condo. We’re both college/beyond college educated. We keep track of all expenses and include an “electronic stuff” and “vacation” category in our budget. We don’t have children and we have well above what is needed for an emergency fund (main reason we’re looking for real-estate), we have investments, etc. Our finances are in order. so why can’t we just enjoy our hard-earned money? What’s wrong with wanting nice things if you can afford them?
That being said, I know the people you’re referring to. There is a security officer I speak to at work who runs out and gets an i-phone every time they upgrade even though he clearly cannot afford it- and he doesn’t ever take care of it.
You can absolutely enjoy your gadgets and your flat screen tv! Reason being – You can afford it! Good to hear you have an emergency fund and an effective budget, to keys to helping to afford your gadgets and such!
A few traits of the NSWTD I’ve noticed:
- they own a large and ever-expanding collection of DVD’s
- … or GI Joe Action Figures or sports memorabilia or other “toys”
- they go on expensive vacations
- they are quite often divorced or single parents
- … or they’re married but spent a fortune on their wedding
- when buying a new service (cell phone, cable, etc.) they add in a bunch of options because they’re “only a few dollars” each, and don’t realize how much they add up
Spot-on observations! I’ve seen those too. Especially the DVD collections.
Hi, came over from FMF…
A few of my own (these would be more of the “preening bohemian” types that I see around me here in Silicon Valley):
1. Shop only at Whole Foods, and complain endlessly about the cost of food, when even super-organic free-range everything costs far less if you actually do a bit of shopping. Even if you have philosophical issues with Walmart, you can buy lots of organic stuff at Costco.
2. Buy his and hers SUVs, and keep both of them and buy a Prius – but don’t drive it for some reason. And then complain about gas prices. (I’ve seen this a couple of times)
3. Buy a gi-normous house out in the middle of nowhere, and drive 75 miles one way to work. And then discourse at length on how we need to reduce our carbon footprint (between rants about how they make $200K+/year and can’t save a dime).
Interesting observations! It’s nice to hear thoughts from different parts of the country.
I live in the Bay Area and I also find your point #3 interesting. This area is so anti-war and big on combatting global warming. And maybe that is ok. But there are soooo many people here driving the largest SUV possible. How can we not connect the dots? It’s like we want the government to force us what we won’t do for ourselves. I think we’ve got it backwards.
They usually have too much of everything, but books. Usually no books. Lots of electronic wizardry.
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Interesting observation! Now that I think of it I haven’t seen a great big library at anyone I know that resembles these traits.
lottery tickets
Ah yes, good one!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/17/AR2009051702053.html
Interesting article.
The only ones which apply to me are 9,15,16,20, until recently 8 (which led to 9), and arguably 25.
I hate my job and don’t see anything I can do about it. Sure, I look for another job (so at least that part of 20 doesn’t apply to me) but with no skills and being older I am probably unhireable in this economy.
Until recently I ate poorly because I was paying 73 percent of my income to rent a room in a house with nine people. Finally I was able to move to a cheaper room and I can afford to eat quality food. (Because I had been unable to afford good food, I was loading up on cheap carbs and getting fat. I’m overweight but now I’m losing weight now that I’ve ditched the cheap carbs.
Oh, I realize my situation, and I am despondent over it. The good news is that I don’t have a spending problem. The bad news is that I have an income problem I haven’t been able to resolve.
You’re looking for a new job which makes you different from the people I’m referring to. I’m talking about people who complain but won’t take the next steps. I’m sure you have marketable skills. If you think you need more then maybe you can look into community college courses? Or continuing ed?
I think you make a lot of very important points in this article. From a personal finance perspective, many of your observations are useful—the amount of money people spend mindlessly on flat screen TVs or phones, over-buying Xmas gifts and take-out food. However, some of your “observations” are offensive. What you are describing in your post is the status of poor people, and to say that poor people don’t take care of their things and don’t take personal responsibility is hurtful. Many poor people *can’t* take better care of their things, and most of those who can, DO. As for blaming others, there is a lot of reality behind the claims that society or corporate America is “out to get” poor people. Certainly the Washington Post article linked to above is an example of this. I’m not going to argue about whether personal finance is a matter of personal responsibility or circumstance—I’m sure we can agree it’s somewhere in the middle. I just want to point out that when you hear struggling folks complaining about external hardships, they are often right. This doesn’t keep them from taking personal responsibility in other areas of their life, or even over as much of their finances as they can. To say that their complaints mean that they do not take personal responsibility is, let me repeat, offensive!
This is my first visit to your blog. I didn’t think that this article was meant to be one of those pieces that support the ‘poor people don’t need welfare, don’t you see them all wearing designer shoes?’ philosophy, but the more I reread it, the more it comes across that way. You frame a lot of these things—eating poorly, no exercise, lousy job—as if the poor should be condemned for them. You even blatantly say that some of these things are OK for rich people, but not for the poor. Why do we expect the poor to be superhuman, while we expect nothing of the rich?? As if the rich have already proven themselves to be responsible, hard working, and all things good simply because they have money.
OK, and now I’m preaching, so I’ll go now. I like your writing style and I intend to look around to see if there’s stuff to entice me to come back. But I will be reading carefully. Let me finish by simply asking you to remember the name of your own blog, and to gently critique your comment in this post to read “NSWTD” as “poor.” As I’m sure you know, there’s a big difference between broke and poor.
Imelda,
I have to say that I disagree with you. I don’t think this article is offensive at all. It’s a truthful observation of behavior in our society. Sometimes it’s uncomfortable to look at ourselves through other peoples’ eyes and recognize that our habits are wrong. Don’t mistake your own discomfort with the truth for offensive content.
I also think that you do a disservice to poor people by insisting that they can’t do anything about their situation. That is absolutely NOT true. Some people may need help, and it may not be easy, but poor people absolutely CAN change their economic status. To say they can’t takes away their power and undermines the importance of personal responsibility.
To your comment, “As if the rich have already proven themselves to be responsible, hard working, and all things good simply because they have money.” How do you think they got their money? Most rich people get there (and stay there) by working hard and being responsible, believe it or not. So yes, they have already proven themselves.
One could argue that it’s through personal responsibility and budgeting that one can gain wealth (maybe not even argue). If you spend your income on stuff then you won’t gain wealth. This goes for people of all incomes.
Irrespective of the role of managing your finances statistically most rich people are born into wealth. There is very little class mobility in the US, and what there is is significantly reduced from previous generations. May people are shocked to hear that it is actually easier to improve your lot in the socialist paradise or Europe than here in the Land of Opportunity.
My point is just be frugal, it is a good in and of itself, but don’t buy into the wealth story. You can’t get there this way.
I’m not sure if I’ve ever called anyone who resembles these traits “poor.” I purposely called these traits of the not so well to do. These can very well be traits of people with 6 figure incomes who have nothing in savings and are up to their necks in debt.
As for not taking things, I observed people who get the latest technology, spending a lot on it then letting it get lost or wrecked. This isn’t a poor or rich trait. This is about responsibility. When you aren’t on top of money and the value of things then you tend to not care about the stuff you have. You might just go and charge a new one if you break your gadget.
Some of the things here are ok for wealthy people if they can afford them. There’s nothing wrong with a flat screen tv, all the cable channels, or an iPhone if you can afford it. When you are mortgaging your future for these things just for the status then that isn’t too great.
I hope you do come back. I like comments that challenge what has been said! It’s through discourse that we gain better understanding.
I know people just like this. As I read your list I could imagine them saying, “Yes, but . . . ” to every item on your list.
1 (flat screen TV) – “Yes, but I don’t go out very much. This is my entertainment.”
3 (eating out) – “Yes, but there’s just not enough time to cook.”
7 (latest cell phone) – “Yes, but I need that. I’ve got to be able to talk to people.”
11 (holiday overspending) – “Yes , but it’s for the kids.”
I’m not perfect. I don’t always cook at home. I enjoy TV. But I worked at finding a schedule where I can cook at home most of the time. I think about exercise the same way that I do my vitamin pill – it’s something that needs to happen every day. Most of all, I view life as what I make it. I refuse to accept the norm.
Marsha’s last blog post..Heat Wave and Baked Ham
Yes, a lot of “yes but”’s. I’m certainly not perfect either. I think the more we can look at these traits and look at ourselves the better off we are. I resembled a whole lot more of these years ago and hopefully don’t resemble too many now. It’s all a work in process.
I mostly agree with you, but we are reaching that point where the flat TV really is the only option. My current old-timey CRT tv probably has another year or two left in it, but when it goes, I guarantee I will be replacing it with a flat screen, whether I want to or not!
Downside is, where the heck do you put the rabbit ears? I might have to mount them on the wall.
True, the tube tv is done. But a lot of the people I’m talking about bought flat screens because they wanted a big tv not because their old one broke down.
Wasn’t too long a go I had rabbit ears. That’s a thing of the past too in a matter of days!
I am guilty of a few of these things: #4 – sorry, but I like driving a new car! And #8 & 9 – I’m overweight and I eat some junk food, although I almost never eat out or get fast food. #20 – Sure, I complain about my job, but I like the paycheck. And I may, at some point, buy a flat-screen TV out of money I have saved up by avoiding all the other things on the list.
I would add to this list:
- Don’t save for retirement. I work with a lot of people who don’t even take advantage of the company match on the first 6% of their 401(k) contributions!
- Gamble on insurance. I know people who think they don’t need health insurance because they’re healthy (and hey, that’s more money they can spend on gadgets!), but all it takes is one trip to the hospital to put you tens of thousands of dollars in debt.
- Consider available credit equal to cash. Some people seem to think that a $5000 credit limit is the exact same thing as having $5000 in cash, and they can and should spend all of it.
I like your additions! It’s tough thinking about something you need money for in 30+ years. I was that way too (and still am a bit). Still, with a matching 401(k) you leaving free money on the table.
Insurance is big too. One illness and you realize how important insurance is.
And credit is where the credit card companies get some. That’s why they raise credit limits after a bit. How many people have actually asked for a credit limit versus having it raised for them? Hmm.
I have quite a bit of sympathy with imelda’s complaint. I agree with all the points you make regarding these traits, but I can’t direct anyone I know to read this list. Your discussion sounds like these traits make you angry and that people who indulge in are irredeemable. It doesn’t matter that you were there once, this is not a gentle pointing out of what the NSWTD are doing wrong, this is a gloating that you’ve gotten past these issues. The only people who are going to appreciate this list are people who can gloat along with you because they’ve never succumbed to these behaviours or because they’ve gotten over them. It’s a kind of self-righteousness that interferes with a lot of personal finance posts (not just yours).
I had the good luck to have picked up good financial sense by accident (not because my parents were money-wise or rich). I could easily be one of these people you’re criticising, many of the people I know and love are. You are spot on with these traits, but noone in this situation could read your post and not get offended and defensive.
Hmm, I appreciate your point of view. I hope I’m not preaching to the converted and that there’s something for people really looking to change. Your point is well taken though. By no means am I trying to be self-righteous and my intention isn’t to gloat. I’ll even say that I still resemble many of the traits.
Let me say that anyone who thinks they resemble too many of these traits to point where they may be one of the NSWTD has the ability to change if they want to. But it’s up to them.
Thanks for your take on it!
This was my first visit to Free From Broke as well, and I was also turned off by the tone of the article, despite agreeing with most of your points. I am unfortunately living a lot of the lifestyle you describe, and looking for paths out, but the “us/them” aspect of the post (and the comments) was frankly a little insulting–as in “these are the things THEY do, because they don’t have the proper values (ours)”. Perhaps it’s also the way you attribute motivations to “them”, rather than sticking to the financial side of things–I just couldn’t escape the feeling I was being looked down on.
Despite that, I found the principles of the article to be sharp and insightful, and I probably will give the blog further reading. From your responses, it’s clear that you really only intend to provide genuine advice, not to engage in class-baiting.
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Sure, all of these traits in on person would surely indicate a lack of financial (or any other kind) of sense. But, taken apart from one another several of your points are simply a matter of the NSWTD do this because they are in fact NSWTD. Some of us have a lot of education, and that’s the reason we’re NSWTD. Some rent because they don’t want to be one of these people who over-extend themselves buying a house they can’t afford. Some don’t save for retirement because they really are just getting by. Now, if those are combined with several of your other traits, well that’s probably a problem, but the general tone of the list reads as though you lack and understanding of why so many people are in tough times. It’s not always a matter of ‘getting out there and taking on that world.’
But, I have to agree on the gadgets and phones. Despite my hatred of my current phone, I recently talked myself out of buying a new one because the old one really does pretty much what I need it to do.
That said, things are rarely so simple as you present them.
I think a key thing about the list is realization. If you’re just getting by and can’t afford to pour money in your Roth IRA, for example, I understand. I remember those days (and still live them). But at the same time the people I’m talking about don’t have money to save not because money is tight but because they chose to spend the money elsewhere like on gadgets or premium cable channels or brand new cell phones.
There’s nothing wrong say with renting. There are times it makes more sense than buying a house. But as a trait I’ve observed there are those who say they have to rent and can’t afford a house yet at the same time they drive a new car and have an apartment full of stuff. Their choice for sure. But they don’t say they choose to rent. They say they can’t afford to when in reality they possibly could if they cut back on their keep up with the Jones’ lifestyle.
It’s true that things aren’t always as simple as stated. But sometimes they are. I’ve seen people who spend and spend then complain that they don’t have money.
I agree totally. My husbands (of 17 yrs) family has always made fun of me. They gave me (as a joke) “The Tightwad Gazette” and laughed about me being so frugal. Guess where they all were this year when we had an ice storm and were out of power for over 4 weeks! My favorite was the TV/Premium Channels comment though. I have a picture somewhere I took of a house (this will really date me LOL). It was a single wide trailer that looked like it was completely dilapidated. One of those 2 bedroom ones with the 2nd bedroom so small that a twin bed you would barely have room to walk to the closet. One of the windows was duck taped to hold it in. In front it had one of those giant satellites (when they were still in style). The dish was brand new. I was amazed.
I agree with all of these except #15 (and, not coincidentally, #15 is the only one that applies to me). Renting versus owning is a complicated calculation, and is hardly as simple as you suggest. We are currently living in the LA area for a fixed term (a postdoctoral fellowship for my wife; we’re three years into a four-year position.) We moved in late 2006, with housing prices at their peak (and we knew they were badly overvalued, not being fools.) Given closing costs and so on, we would have been idiots to buy rather than rent knowing we would be moving in less than five years, and now, with housing prices in our neighborhood down by 33% (and our rent still exactly the same), we’re happier than ever with our decision.
What if you exhibit every trait on this list, but still manage to sock away 25% of your income into investments for the future and keep a separate pool of emergency funds on hand?
Then what are you?
Someone with hobbies.
Wow. Really insightful, and I really appreciated the detailed evidence that backed up your observations. Watch out Suzi Orman!
I would like to see a list of traits of the financially independent.
They also don’t read articles like this one.
Alternate Names for this Article:
People Who Spend Any Money Ever
People the Author Doesn’t Like
A further thought – a big consideration for these things too is how much upkeep someone requires. For example, I have a flat-screen tv, but I also have no family to support, just me. I’m buying food for one, not five, paying medical bills for one, not five, etc. I don’t make a lot of money, but I live in Oklahoma, where living expenses are very minimal – i.e., I don’t need a lot of money to pay my bills.
Another thought on buying vs. renting – last year I was living in an apartment and my hot water heater died – they came and replaced it that morning. My mom owns a house and her hot water heater died – $700.
If I owned a house, again, it’s just me, so I’d be doing all the lawn mowing, leaf raking, and maintenance myself. I’d be paying property taxes. Replacing anything broken out of my own pocket. Bugs? Rotting wood? Deck needs sealing? My problem, my time, my dime. If I had a family, then sure, a house would make a lot more sense. But for a single guy, not so much.
I’d like to second the benefits of renting from other commenters:
1) It’s generally cheaper than a mortgage on a monthly basis.
2) The rent does not fluctuate like a mortgage – especially if you live in a town with rent control.
3) Most people don’t factor in property taxes in the cost of owning a home. Divide the property tax by 12 and add to your monthly payments.
4) Renters usually don’t pay garbage and water.
5) If having equity (aka more debt) is a big advantage to buying a home, then you probably bought a home for the wrong reasons.
6) As one poster mentioned: home ownership = maintenance. Termites? your problem. Structural integrity? your problem. Leaky faucet? your problem. You get the idea.
7) Most landlords are ok with any minor living improvements to a home (paint, refinishing, gardens, etc) as the low cost upgrades brighten your rental an improve the property value for your landlord.
Yeah, someday I will own a home myself, but am in no rush for the reasons stated above.
Who knew that when someone picks up the tab and or tip, that the well to do others are thinking ‘what are they trying to prove’. I always just thank them, think it’s a nice gesture, and pick up the tab the next time. Well, no more, now I know to make everyone pay and make sure they don’t tip much, so that I’m not judged. Luckily I’m not an overweight renter while picking up the tab.